March 23, 2023 - TikTok CEO Shou Chew testifies before Congress
Watch lawmakers grill TikTok CEO over data concerns
02:58 - Source: CNN
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Shu Jueting, spokesperson for Chinese Ministry of Commerce, said if the US forces a sale of TikTok, they would "firmly oppose it."
(Zhao Jun/China News Service/VCG/Getty Images/FILE)If the US forces a sale of TikTok, China’s Commerce Ministry would “firmly oppose it,” Shu Jueting, ministry spokesperson, said Thursday.
“Ignoring the products and services themselves, and only proceeding from the identity of foreign investors, forcing the sale of TikTok will seriously damage the confidence of investors from all over the world, including China, to invest in the United States,” Shu said when asked about the possibility of the US forcing the sale of TikTok.
Shu also explained the sale or divestment of TikTok would need to be done in accordance with Chinese laws and regulations because it involves “technology export issues and administrative licensing procedures.”
The Chinese government considers some advanced technology — including content recommendation algorithms — to be critical to its national interest. In December, Chinese officials proposed tightening the rules that govern the sale of that technology to foreign buyers.
As talk of a possible TikTok ban grows louder in Washington, at least one member of Congress stressed that the app is unlikely to go away in the United States.
“I strongly doubt this app will go dark,” Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi told CNN during its primetime special on Thursday. Instead, he said, the app will likely get sold.
Federal officials are currently demanding the app’s Chinese owners sell their stake in the social media platform, or risk facing a ban of the app.
The US government cannot ignore TikTok as a potential national security threat, even if efforts to crack down on the company alienate a generation of future voters, Rep. Mike Gallagher told CNN during its primetime special.
“Republicans [and] Democrats agreed this is a threat,” Gallagher, the chair of the House Select Committee on China, told CNN. “So we can’t ignore it just because of concerns about alienating some teenagers on this app.”
“It’s a national security issue,” he said. “We have to deal with it before it’s too late.”
TikTok creators Ashley Renne Nsonwu and Hannah Williams
(CNN)TikTok creator Hannah Williams told CNN that she built her business through the app, and now makes some $200,000 a year. A ban would mean a hit to her business, she said.
Williams also stressed how an entire generation of American young people now “live on TikTok,” and don’t want to see it go.
“A lot of our younger community, you know, under 30, they live on TikTok. TikTok is their Google, it’s their Yelp,” she said. “And I think that it’s a really great source for information that a lot of people turn to, and it’s where we build a lot of community and gathering.”
“It’d be a shame to lose it,” Williams said.
Fellow TikTok creator Ashley Renne Nsonwu added that TikTok has also helped people from diverse backgrounds find community. “For people like me, you know, Black and brown people of color, it would be very detrimental to us,” she said of a TikTok ban. “It’s very upsetting for a lot of us, because we rely on these spaces to talk about issues that really matter to us. And now we’re talking about banning that.”
Kara Swisher, host of the "On with Kara Swisher" podcast
(CNN)Longtime tech journalist Kara Swisher, host of the “On with Kara Swisher” podcast, kicked off the primetime special by telling CNN that a TikTok ban would be a boon for US tech giants, such as Meta’s Facebook and Instagram.
“The fact of the matter is this will help Facebook Reels,” she said of a possible ban, referring to a copycat feature Meta introduced to complete with TikTok. “It will help a lot of other social media sites, primarily Facebook.”
“And that’s one of the issues here again, these legislators should be thinking more broadly across the entire social media spectrum,” Swisher said. She added that some of the issues lawmakers brought up around TikTok, especially surrounding potential harms for teens, “are happening everywhere.”
She continued: “And it’s happening even among adults, I mean, Twitter is no Nirvana garden party, it’s a very toxic place – and so this is a bigger issue that they should be dealing with, but in this case, they’re going to aim at TikTok because of the Chinese government.”
CNN’s primetime special, “Is Time Up for TikTok,” kicks off at 9 p.m. ET. The special will look at the national security concerns for TikTok as well as the popular app’s impacts on younger users — and the efforts of lawmakers and schools to address these issues.
Pay TV subscribers can stream the special live via CNN.com and CNN OTT, and mobile apps under “TV Channels,” or CNNgo where available.
TikTok Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew testified before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing entitled "TikTok: How Congress can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," as lawmakers scrutinized the Chinese-owned video-sharing app, on Capitol Hill today.
(Evelyn Hockstein/Reuters)After more than five hours of testimony, we are largely back where we were when the hearing started. US lawmakers remain convinced that TikTok is an urgent threat to national security; TikTok made no new major commitments beyond what it has already promised to do to safeguard user data; and a nationwide ban still seems very much a live possibility.
Few new facts were uncovered in the hearing, but lawmakers took every opportunity to accuse TikTok of actively spying on US users; of failing to moderate content in the way that Douyin, TikTok’s Chinese sister app, does under China’s strict internet censorship regime; and of effectively being an arm of the Chinese government.
“What you’re saying about Project Texas just doesn’t pass the smell test,” said Rep. Angie Craig, referring to the company’s program to wall off US user data. “My constituents are concerned that TikTok and the Chinese Communist Party are controlling their data and seeing our own vulnerabilities…. What you’re doing down in Texas is all well and good, but it is not enough to be convinced that our privacy is not at risk.”
TiKTok CEO Shou Chew sought to provide nuanced answers and at times attempted to correct lawmakers on misperceptions about the company and its parent — but those responses were often interpreted as bad-faith evasiveness.
It was, in other words, a textbook congressional grilling of a technology CEO.
In a statement after the hearing, TikTok said its CEO “came prepared to answer questions from Congress, but, unfortunately, the day was dominated by political grandstanding that failed to acknowledge the real solutions already underway.”
If there was any progress made on Thursday, it was reflected in the breadth of support lawmakers showed for a comprehensive, bipartisan privacy proposal that would create the nation’s first-ever federal privacy right — a years-long dream of privacy advocates.
Such a law would govern all businesses’ handling of American data in the United States, covering not just TikTok but also other social media companies, data brokers and more. A comprehensive federal privacy law, many members of the panel said, is the only way to ensure the long-term safety of Americans’ personal information.
Gen Z is the first generation to truly grow up online and now they’re joining the fight to log off. In February, college student and founder of the Log Off Movement, Emma Lembke, testified in front of a Senate committee about the impact that social media companies have on youth mental health.
Lembke is one of many activists, including parents and politicians from both sides of the aisle, calling for increased government regulation of social media companies. Dr. Sanjay Gupta talks with CNN Technology Reporter Brian Fung about a Supreme Court case that could open those companies to more lawsuits. Plus, we dive into what we actually know about the privacy concerns surrounding TikTok and if a nationwide ban is possible.
Click here to listen to this episode of Chasing Life
Also, Jen Easterly, the director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, talks to David Axelrod about the cyber threats from Russia and China, the potential downsides of A.I. and TikTok, and why cybersecurity needs to be a collaborative effort.
Click here to listen to this episode of the Axe Files
After more than five hours, the hearing has officially wrapped.
Two polls released this week find more public support than opposition for a US government ban on the app — although younger Americans and frequent TikTok users are against such a ban.
Among Americans who’ve heard of TikTok, 61% favor the US government banning the app, with 39% opposed, according to a CBS News/YouGov poll released Thursday. The vast majority of the public, more than 9 in 10, say they’ve heard or read at least something about the app.
Views vary sharply by age. Among those who’ve heard of TikTok, these are the percentages of people who say they are in favor of banning the app:
39% of those younger than 30 55% in the 30 to 44 age group 65% of those who are 45 to 64 years old 83% of those 65 and olderThere’s less of a partisan divide, with 70% of Republicans, 60% of Democrats and 58% of independents who’ve heard of TikTok all favoring a ban.
Among Americans who’ve heard about TikTok, 56% consider its ties to China a national security risk, with 22% saying that TikTok’s parent company being based in China does not present such a risk and the remainder unsure.
In a Washington Post poll also released this week, a majority also favored banning TikTok in the US – 41% in support to 25% opposed, with about one-third (34%) not sure, although a 54% majority of daily TikTok users said they did not want to see the app banned.
A majority of Americans (71%) in the Washington Post poll said they were at least somewhat concerned that TikTok’s parent company is based in China, with majorities also saying it was likely that TikTok is allowing the spread of false information (73%) and harming teens’ mental health (72%).
But only about one-third, 34%, said they believed TikTok collected more personal data than other social media apps do, with more (43%) saying it collected about the same amount of data as other apps, and 21% not sure.
U.S. Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy at the U.S. Capitol building on March 10.
(Anna Moneymaker/Getty Images)House Speaker Kevin McCarthy said Wednesday he supports legislation that would effectively ban TikTok in the United States, the clearest sign yet of the growing momentum on Capitol Hill to outlaw the popular social media app.
“I don’t know that we have to give the president the authority. I think maybe we may be able to do it ourselves and I’ll let it work in the House,” he told CNN’s Manu Raju.
Asked if he would support a congressional ban on the app, McCarthy responded; “Yes.”
“I think you see a bipartisan concern here with what’s happening on TikTok especially what’s happening to the data for Americans … there’s many different ramifications here so I think they could come together. I’d let the committees do their work and see if the product comes out when it gets done,” McCarthy said of potential legislation, and did not give any timeline.
TikTok CEO Shou Chew addressed reports that TikTok uses keylogging, a method by which an app or program monitors the keyboard entries of users.
“We do not engage in keystroke logging to monitor what users say,” Chew said. “It’s to identify bots. It’s for security purposes, and this is a standard industry practice.”
Privacy experts have confirmed that keylogging is indeed widespread among websites and that the technique is not inherently malicious, but can potentially lead to user data being collected when users type in sensitive personal information into websites they visit.
The fact that keylogging is a common industry practice does not necessarily excuse TikTok, but it highlights privacy advocates’ broad concerns about the use of keylogging more generally and underscores calls for stronger privacy laws for all companies.
The House Committee for Energy and Commerce, where TikTok CEO Shou Chew is testifying, is now in recess.
TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew leaves as the House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on "TikTok: How Congress Can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," calls for a recess on March 23.
(Jim Watson/AFP/Getty Images)Even before his first Congressional appearance was over, at least one industry watcher was quick to pan the TikTok CEO’s performance as a failure.
“We would characterize today’s testimony by TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew in the Beltway as a ‘disaster’ moment,” Dan Ives, an analyst at Wedbush, wrote in a note Thursday as the hearing was still underway.
Ives said Chew’s performance “will likely catalyze more calls by lawmakers and the White House to look to ban TikTok within the US if the company does not look to spin-off and force a sale from Chinese parent ByteDance.”
Chew faced intense skepticism from lawmakers about his company’s efforts to wall off US user data and address Washington’s concerns about TikTok’s ties to China.
“Chew walked a tight rope in answering the questions with a lot more uncertainty around the walled off data and comfort that China does not have access to TikTok’s 150 million US consumers data,” Ive said. “In our opinion, the odds were stacked against Chew heading into today.”
A multi-agency government panel on Thursday vowed to clamp down on data security risks stemming from foreign-linked business activity, as TikTok’s CEO sought to stave off a nationwide ban during a three-hour-long congressional hearing.
The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, which is charged with reviewing foreign investment deals for national security implications, did not address or name TikTok specifically.
But in a statement, the Treasury Department — the US agency that chairs CFIUS — warned that it “will not clear any transaction unless it determines there are no unresolved national security concerns.”
“Broadly speaking, some transactions can present data security risks — including providing a foreign person or government with access to troves of Americans’ sensitive personal data as well as access to intellectual property, source code, or other potentially sensitive information,” a Department spokesperson said. “CFIUS, on a case-by-case basis, will ensure the protection of national security, including to prevent the misuse of data through espionage, tracking, and other means that threaten national security.”
For more than two years, CFIUS and TikTok have been negotiating on a possible deal that might address US security concerns and allow the app to continue operating in the United States.
That lengthy process has prompted lawmakers to pressure the Biden administration to hurry up, and some have introduced legislation to ban TikTok. Since then, CFIUS has threatened TikTok with a ban unless the company’s Chinese owners sell their shares in the company.
TikTok CEO Shou Chew said that what US officials fear — Chinese government access to TikTok’s user data — is a hypothetical scenario that has not been proven.
“How can all of the countries [that have banned TikTok on government devices] and our own FBI director have been wrong?” asked Rep. Debbie Lesko.
“I think a lot of risks that are pointed out are hypothetical and theoretical risks,” Chew said. “I have not seen any evidence. I am eagerly awaiting discussions where we can talk about evidence and then we can address the concerns that are being raised.”
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on March 22.
(Kevin Dietsch/Getty Images)US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Thursday said TikTok should be “ended one way or another,” but noted “there are different ways of doing that.”
Speaking at a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing, Blinken said he did not know if it would be sufficient for TikTok to be divested from its Chinese parent company.
The top US diplomat said he believed the app is a threat to US national security, but would not outright say that it should be banned. He noted that it has been prohibited for use by US Embassy contractors and third party vendors.
“Clearly, we, the administration and others are seized with the challenge that it poses and are taking action to address it,” he said.
TikTok Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew testifying before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing on Capitol Hill in Washington, today.
(Evelyn Hockstein/Reuters)When asked about election misinformation, TikTok CEO Shou Chew stressed that the platform takes the issue seriously, and highlighted that the app does not do political ads.
“We are the only platform that I know of that doesn’t actually take political ads. We don’t accept money. I don’t think other platforms can say that,” he told Democratic Rep. Marc Veasey, the co-chair of the Congressional Voting Rights Caucus.
Veasey had expressed concerns about China using the power of TikTok’s reach around the world “to influence public opinion and undermine the integrity of our democratic elections.”
However, when he cited reports saying that TikTok approved 90% of the false political ads targeted at young US voters that researchers tested on the platform, Chew said he would need to review the report given TikTok’s policy on election misinformation and political ads.
“We do take dangerous misinformation, particularly around an election, very seriously,” Chew added.
A TikTok ban is far from a certainty despite bipartisan bluster at today’s hearing. But if it were to be banned, Snapchat could be the biggest beneficiary.
Moody’s analyst Emile El Nems said in a note to investors Thursday that YouTube, Instagram and Snap would benefit from a TikTok ban, each gaining a higher share of the advertising market.
But Snap would be the biggest winner.
“Given the revenue scale of YouTube and Instagram, the TikTok ban creates a smaller revenue opportunity, but it could be materially positive for Snap,” said El Nems.
Snap’s stock surged earlier this month after Congress renewed efforts to ban TikTok. Shares of Snap were up 4% in trading Thursday as the hearing got underway.
TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew during a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, on the platform's consumer privacy and data security practices and impact on children, on March 23, on Capitol Hill in Washington.
(Alex Brandon/AP)TikTok CEO Shou Chew told lawmakers the company does not currently sell user data to commercial data brokers, but under questioning from Rep. Debbie Dingell, he could not commit that the company would never sell user data.
“There are certain members of our industry who do this,” he said. “I think there has to be broad legislation to help us, the whole industry, address this problem.”
Asked whether TikTok has provided precise geolocation data to the Chinese government, or inferences drawn from that data, Chew appeared relieved.
“That I can give you a straight answer on,” he said. “No.”
TikTok Chief Executive Shou Zi Chew reacts during a session for him to testify before a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing entitled "TikTok: How Congress can Safeguard American Data Privacy and Protect Children from Online Harms," as lawmakers scrutinize the Chinese-owned video-sharing app, on Capitol Hill today.
(Evelyn Hockstein/Reuters)Rep. Tony Cárdenas tweaked Chew about some of his answers that were not directly responsive to lawmakers questions, comparing him to Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, who in his own testimony has also frustrated members of Congress.
“You have been one of the few people to unite this committee,” Cárdenas told Chew. “You remind me a lot of Mark Zuckerberg. When he came here, I said to my staff, ‘He reminds me of Fred Astaire — good dancer with words.’ And you dare doing the same today. A lot of your answers are a bit nebulous; they’re not yes or no.”
Moments later, Cárdenas tried to pin Chew down on whether ByteDance is a “Chinese company.”
As TikTok has testified, ByteDance is a private company, 60% held by global institutional investors including Blackrock, Sequoia and General Atlantic; 20% by employees; and 20% by its Chinese owners. Chew tried to explain that breakdown to Cárdenas but the response was received as evasion.
The House committee is back from its recess. California Rep. Tony Cardenas is next.
Pedestrians walk past the Elizabeth Tower at the Houses of Parliament in central London, UK, on October 11, 2022.
(Carlos Jasso/AFP/Getty Images)Britain’s parliament has banned TikTok on all lawmakers’ official devices and the “wider parliamentary network,” citing concerns over cybersecurity.
The ban applies to all networks and devices associated with both the House of Common and the House of Lords and comes after an edict last week banning the Chinese video sharing app from the devices of all civil servants.
