Fields Corner Papa John's approved after agreeing to add salads to ...

The Boston Licensing Board on Thursday approved a proposed Papa John's at 1501 Dorchester Ave. in Fields Corner after the franchisee agreed to add salads, and possibly other healthy offerings to its menu - and to require all delivery drivers to make pickups through a rear door rather than clogging up the already crowded street out front.

All three board members said they were sympathetic to the issue of a small neighborhood being overwhelmed by junk food, but agreed opposition at a hearing the day before was really more focused on opposition to yet another pizza place in the neighborhood - opposition that included the owner of a pizza place across the street - and "competition" is not an issue the board can legally consider in opposing a proposed food-serving license.

"I'm open to the argument that a small little neighborhood could be overwhelmed with bad food options," board member Liam Curran said. "For me, Papa John's I would say is an unhealthy food option." Curran said he didn't buy franchisee Joe Johnson's contention that Papa John's was somehow healthier because its pizzas, like pizzas everywhere else, are baked, not fried. Curran said Papa John's does sell fried stuff, "it's just fried somewhere else and they reheat them."

"At least some options on the menu allow it to not be as deleterious as some other fast food places," board member Keeana Saxon said, referencing her vote a couple years ago against a proposed Burger King on the Hyde Park/Mattapan line. But, she continued, "most of the opposition" was not about unhealthy food, but competition with nearby pizza places. "I was a little bit annoyed by it," she said.

In a city increasingly overwhelmed by delivery people on scooters, board members said they were particularly appreciative of Johnson's plan - submitted after a contentious hearing yesterday - to limit pickups to a rear door.

The board made the rear pickups a requirement on its license, which means that if police find food deliverers cramming out front, they can issue citations, which would require hearings before the board and possible sanctions.

Board members compared their impending vote in favor of the Papa John's to their vote a few years ago to doom a proposed Popeyes in Codman Square - which residents and community groups opposed as a purveyor of high-fat food and which never filed a plan on how it would deal with traffic.

Curran said there was "a very clear groundswell" against Popeyes based strictly on its menu, not the issue of it competing against nearby restaurants.

Board Chairwoman Kathleen Joyce, who noted the board wasn't even required to hold a hearing on Joe and Ralonda Johnson's application - because they are moving into the location of a previous restaurants - but did so because of the opposition to the proposal.

She said she objected to the way the Johnsons and their attorney, Dennis Quilty kept raising issues related to the business dealings of opponent and Antonio's Hi-Fi owner Brian Chavez - who previously operated a burger place at the proposed Papa John's location; in fact, she called it "out of line." But she said that on the merits of the application itself, she had to side with the Johnsons - in response to neighborhood concerns, they agreed to roll back the proposed closing time to midnight most nights and 1 a.m. on weekends and to restrict where delivery food can be picked up and add salads.

"I wasn't able to find it was not in the public good," she said.

The proposal by a New Jersey-based franchisee - but with a local manager who went to Burke High School - was met by opposition at the hearing the day before from a local business group and residents, who say they don't want some national chain with unhealthy food competing with home-grown small businesses in a neighborhood that already has more than enough pizza options.

The Johnsons, though, countered that their food is a lot better for you than some of the stuff you can get elsewhere in the neighborhood. "Our opponents sell fried food," Joe Johnson said. "We don't sell anything fried." In fact, he continued, their pizzas are made with "from the vine into the can" sauce with no additives and are baked, not fried.

And he said the "public need" for a Papa John's - down the street from where another franchisee failed with the concept a few years ago - is not just the food but the fact that he, his wife and Tabb are all Black, in a state where Black and Brown restaurant ownership is far below the minority percentage of the population.

"Just as important as what's being sold is who's selling it," he said.

They said their proposed manager, Charles Tabb, is as local as you can get - he grew up in Dorchester, went to school there and still lives there, and will be a part owner. "I'm from the city and I worked so hard to get to where I'm at," Tabb said, adding all the opposition "is kind of heartbreaking to me."

Joe Johnson, who said his company has already poured $500,000 into the Fields Corner location, said that as he and his wife have grown their business to 23 franchises, they have developed a program to educate employees in franchising and to bring some on - such as Tabb, as partners in individual outlets.

Quilty said all the opposition to the proposal was being ginned up by Antonio's Hi-Fi owner Brian Chavez, whom he accused of being out to scuttle a competing pizza option, in part over bitterness of getting kicked out of his BosBurger space for failing to pay his rent.

Chavez, though, said he objects to "mischaracterization and outright lies," although he added, "this is not the forum for what would be a private business dispute."

He said his objection was simply that Fields Corner already has "a saturation of pizza" and Papa John's would have "no emphasis on healthy options." Sure, he admitted, he used to sell burgers out of the space, but his place also had "healthy options" on its menu and even offered fruit.

Ellen Schmarsow, president of Fields Corner Main Street, which advocates for local businesses, opposed the proposed Papa John's. She said the area needs locally owned businesses - and more fresh food - and that the Johnsons "have not been transparent" about their own personal location. "New Jersey does not count" as local, she said.

Board Chairwoman Kathleen Joyce started her questions by asking the Johnsons: "What is your response to the fact there are four other existing pizza places in the same general area?" She continued, however, that her main concern was with parking and congestion outside a place whose owners estimated 70% of their business would be takeout and delivery.

Joe Johnson said that while the outlet would allow third-party deliverers, he said it would concentrate on using its own employees to deliver orders, and that they would have a space in a parking lot out back.

Joyce said "times have changed," because the pandemic made third-party delivery far more common - and said a national chain such as Papa John's might spur even more delivery runs than a locally based outlet. She asked the Johnsons and Quilty to supply a written plan on how they will minimize potential traffic and parking issues - something the board now routinely asks eateries that plan to allow third-party delivery.

He and Quilty said they doubted traffic would be any worse outside the Papa John's than the previous BosBurger.